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Case for Impeachment?

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Events' started by Ovie, May 28, 2017.

  1. Ovie

    Ovie Member Claimed IQ: 130+

    Well? Is it going to happen? From where I sit, I don't see how it can't -- eventually. I'm not really an in depth student of modern politics ( it's enough to turn anyone's stomach) but concerning collusion with Russia, Obstruction of Justice, etc etc , if it looks like a duck ...
    If he's allowed to stay in office, the "system" in the U.S. is truly beyond repair and all hope to right the ship is lost, imo.
    Infuriating.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017

  2. Glimmer

    Glimmer Active Member Claimed IQ: 150+

    I'm not a Trump supporter, but if you're not studying this in depth, then you would have to be a genius to tell the difference between truth and propaganda in all this. But then again, maybe you are.
     
    KimchiNinja likes this.
  3. WheatieMuncher

    WheatieMuncher Well-Known Member IQ: 120+

    To impeach Trump requires the support of two-thirds of Congress. With the republicans making up 54% of the House of Represenatives, and 52% of the Senate, it's very unlucky that it will happen. To even consider impeachment, there must be concrete evidence that the president has committed a criminal act, of which there is currently none.

    Like him or not, Trump is almost certainly staying for his four years.
     
    Kegs and KimchiNinja like this.
  4. Ovie

    Ovie Member Claimed IQ: 130+

    Only while he's seen as helpful to the party will he be allowed to continue these shenanigans. The minute he's seen as a liability he will be gone. And that speaks to my point -- how is this character NOT a liability. Congressional outcomes in 2018 will decide. At that point, if the majority shifts to thhe Dems, and it will, he will be out before you can say "Your'e Fired!"
     
  5. Creedinger

    Creedinger Well-Known Member IQ: 120+

    Totally unrelated: that is what we thought about hitler. .... yes i pulled one ;)
     
  6. Zein

    Zein New Member Unclaimed IQ

    I don't think you understand how this works.

    If it's not a legal matter, then he will not be impeached. Your feelings are completely - entirely - irrelevant. And that goes for the rest of everyone who dislikes Trump.

    The outrage is amusing, yet tiring.
     
    KimchiNinja likes this.
  7. KimchiNinja

    KimchiNinja Well-Known Member IQ: 140+

    It's a corporate coup. The "wrong" person won, corporate media fabricates an alternate reality, fed by "leaks" from deepstate/intel community, the masses say "yeah, I guess this does seem pretty bad", then somehow they try to get to from that fantasy to some hard evidence of something and impeach (or just cripple the government). Failed state.

    Very true. I studied it in depth for months, and gave up. The propaganda is so many layers thick, designed by people as smart as us or smarter, AND working in teams 24/7. There's no real way for even us smarties to pry this apart.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
  8. KimchiNinja

    KimchiNinja Well-Known Member IQ: 140+

    But when has the party ever considered him helpful? Bannon/Trump ran a hostile takeover of the republican party "we'll just punch them in the face, take their party, and win" (paraphrased Bannon quote). Repubs were sure as hell not in favor of this third party takeover, yet they have not been able to get rid of him. Part of the anti-Trump propaganda is coming from the old-right, who want him gone. Wanting however does not change the fact that he won legit.
     
  9. Ovie

    Ovie Member Claimed IQ: 130+

    Won legit? funny
     
  10. Ovie

    Ovie Member Claimed IQ: 130+

    I understand how it works, I am having trouble with the fact that public opinion no longer matters. The American experiment has utterly failed. So what? We all just accept that we are a dictatorship now? Oh well... let's just all give up then.
     
  11. Ovie

    Ovie Member Claimed IQ: 130+

    The condescending tone of your post is also amusing, yet tiring. To so arrogantly and definitively express such superiority adds nothing to the conversation. What exactly is it you are trying to say in the above statement besides deriding those opposed to this coup ( seems like you are ok with it)? Because its not a fully formed thought that I can discern. Looks like parroting of some fake news outlet to me. Declare your message in an articulate way or don't bother responding.
     
  12. Kegs

    Kegs Active Member Unclaimed IQ

    How has the American experiment failed?
     
  13. Moloch

    Moloch Well-Known Member IQ: Over 150

    Public opinion got Trump elected. He either fulfills the term or gets booted by circumstances beyond his control. Even if 99% of the American people think Trump sucks there is no legal way to boot him unless there are grounds for impeachement supported by at least 2/3rds of congress. A dislike is no reason to boot an elected official.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  14. WheatieMuncher

    WheatieMuncher Well-Known Member IQ: 120+

    Clinton had less than three million votes more than Trump. The electoral college served it's purpose by making the voice of every state heard. Clinton won over 21 (including D.C.), Trump won over 30. If that doesn't show how easy it would be to win an election by simply appealing to larger states, I don't know what to tell you.

    It was entirely legit.
    Are you here to mitigate someone for not agreeing with you, or are you here to amend, refine, and exchange your ideas with others until your ideas are justifiable? The latter is the behavior indicative of high IQ that we seek.
     
    Creedinger and Moloch like this.
  15. Creedinger

    Creedinger Well-Known Member IQ: 120+

    To me it seems Bannon has been removed from the inner circle and served his role as an enabler for trump. To me it seems Bannon was helpful to get votes but that was it.

    Do you have any opinion or assessment of Bannons current role in the trump government or structures?
     
  16. awakenedmachine

    awakenedmachine Well-Known Member Claimed IQ: 130+

    I think a better way to present this dilemma for consideration would be to make a case that President Trump should be impeached and tried by the Senate. Your post assumes that it's obvious for all to see that he's deserved it, but that's no more than any news outlet on the left has done, with a loose collection of allegations based on a lot of speculation. Your question has prompted me to seek out the bare facts because I recognize my own bias as one who leans right (though not really a fan of Trump). The thing is, there's so much gristle out there that the media can play fast and loose with. Yes, the Trump Administration is pretty wild and wooly, his tweets are often outrageous and/or inadvisable for a head of state, but what has been proven as far as "high crimes and misdemeanors" are concerned? I can think of an example that the left has skewered Trump and his team about with respect to his son-in-law arranging back channels of communication with the Kremlin as "proof" of collusion. But "back channels" of communication are used routinely, as a matter of course for all administrations, with many major players on the world stage. It's necessary to be able to have exchanges without discussions being blared about in the press, to avoid leaks. President Kennedy had back channel communications with Nikita Khrushchev, allowing them both to avoid the political pressures from the public and their peers so that they may work to de-escalate tensions between their nations, avoiding nuclear confrontation (see JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters by James W. Douglass). Furthermore, this accusation goes along with the allegation that the Russians helped Trump to win the election, that there was communication to discuss arrangements of quid pro quo. But wait, if that were the case, then why did Jared Kushner need to establish back channels of communication following the election? It would seem that a back channel would have already been there if nefarious deals had been constructed prior to Americans going to the polls... So, just because something is presented as a damning fact by your favorite news outlet, doesn't make it so. Let's figure this out together. Unless you just don't like him and his policies, despite half the country wanting him in office, and you're just interested in finding out when your desires for him to be ejected may be fulfilled (it just seems to be the posturing of your question).
     
  17. Ovie

    Ovie Member Claimed IQ: 130+

    Here's the bottom line folks; Yes, I dislike this administration. Rather than go on the defensive and feel attacked, all I can say is I indeed AM assuming others might be viewing this as I do ... as something out of a dystopian horror story. I find it more than tragic that what I was always taught to be basic American (human) values concerning empathy, kindness, humility, understanding, caring -- all that bleeding heart liberal stuff -- those qualities are utterly gone and discarded as desirable in such a powerful world leader. In place of a figure who is wise, thoughtful, mature, calm , we now have the 70 year old white man version of an adolescent girl ( tweeting? Really? We are all concerned and preoccupied with a "leader" that tweets at all hours of the day? Interjecting his opinions on movie stars and pop culture? It's asinine, not to mention embarrassing).
    All of the mess they have and are creating is embarrassing and absurd. I'm at a total loss as to how to explain any of it to my kids. What do you think a 10 year old will take away from DT making fun of the disabled for example? And what are they supposed to bring away from the fact that he was supposedly elected fairly? What does that say about the values of the nation he's growing up in and will inherit?
    I find it all intolerable and would relocate to some democratically socialist Scandinavian nation in less than a second if I had the means.
    If we are now in a reality where corporate interests run the show LITERALLY, and their puppet of choice is this megalomaniacal, narcissistic, misogynist equivalent of a 13 year old girl, then indeed all hope seems gone and the American experiment has utterly failed. In no way are we able to perceive that this government is by the people, of the people, etc.

    And to be honest, on a very deeply personal note, things have devolved in the US to reflect nothing like the reality we were told to and came to expect when growing up.( I would expound on what these values are, as I understand them but do not have time currently.)
    To all of our European friends on this site, your stereotypes of 'Merica are pretty much overall correct - gun wielding, dorito and soda pop consuming, bigots that worship money, glamour, and power. The recklessness has bled into our politics by design. While lazy Americans were busy stuffing their faces and glued to American Idol and Ninja Warrior, the sinister elements have quietly and patiently executed deliberate intentions to take over.
    Sure there are good people here, but the lunatics have taken over the asylum and it's a disaster. At this point, even if this clown is impeached, I doubt this country can regain respect and good standing globally in my lifetime. What has happened here is simply not reasonable. There is no reason left in American culture.
    Remember reason? REASON as an ideal, as something to strive for. It doesn't exist here. And this, to me , is unacceptable.
     

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