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Intelligence related to assumptions

Discussion in 'Intelligence and Brainpower' started by Chuck, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Chuck

    Chuck Active Member Claimed IQ: 150+

    Has anyone noticed any patterns related to premature assumptions and conclusions that might relate to IQ?
     
    Cornucopia likes this.

  2. Preacherbob

    Preacherbob Well-Known Member Unclaimed IQ

    Assumption is nothing more than a guess at best and doesn't stand up to any testing that could bring an absolute conclusion of certainty. I delve in facts as many others of my ilk do and coming to a conclusion demands data that can provide a field of qualitative support in order to come to a final result.

    The key word in the query provided in the OP is "premature". In order to answer the question I would indeed have to assume an answer based on experience and not on precise data sitting before me which would in turn deny an empirical conclusion making the whole matter premature.

    The oxymoron here is that if I say that such and such levels of IQ tend to prematurely assume without worth while data especially if those levels are average, then I, with a high IQ am guilty of a lower level IQ tendency or pattern.
    On the other hand, if I specify that people with a higher IQ fall into a pattern of coming to a conclusion without the proper data then I would have proven my own point.
     
  3. Moloch

    Moloch Well-Known Member IQ: Over 150

    To paraphrase a certain grey/white wizard: "Given that I am wiser my mistakes tend to be bigger."
     
    Chuck, Cornucopia and Preacherbob like this.
  4. Creedinger

    Creedinger Well-Known Member IQ: 120+

    I assume that his topic was opened because of the other thread (absolutly valid).

    In my opinion the problematic thing is not an assumption, which is stated to the other person since this assumption can then be corrected. However, the assumptions that one has about a topic or person and are not communicated at some point since
    there is no chance of correcting those.

    Hugh? An assumption has a much lower chance of standing up to a test since it is based on very little evidence but it still might be correct even put forth prematurely (can an assumption be premature in case it is discarded with the same easy as it was raised?). In general an assumption can be anything from a wild guess to a belief based on solid evidence.

    In the end it is also a tactical question when talking to other people since a raised assumption might also stear the topic into a desired direction, eventhough the assumption itself might be false.
    I hope I will be dead before it will be regarded a premature assumption in case I say "chuck is a he" soly based on the fact that his name is "chuck" :p

    Simplified: Assumptions - be aware of them, test them and make them. In case you want to be popular - take care of the style.
    Judgements - waaaah ... a very dangerous and tricky thing as you have to take the frame of reference into account, so many perspectives and a wrong judgement can misdirect you so badly.
     
  5. Preacherbob

    Preacherbob Well-Known Member Unclaimed IQ

    It would seem that you are in agreement with me which, is an assumption due to the fact that you placed a "hugh" (which I again assume you meant Huh?) in front of the primary statement.
    In the scientific strata of reasoning from problem, theory to the end result of the proofing an assumption may well be a building block in order to come to a precise conclusion but by itself cannot stand as unquestionable data.

    I do so hope you do not die @Creedinger for I find you a very fine fellow but I have found from a vast amount of experience that a male name and even a declaration from "Chuck" does not prove that he is indeed a male. Indeed, I have met many females who have posted as males, one of which was a regular on this very forum. The very best we can do is to offer an educated guess which would not even hold up in a court of law.

    Now, getting back to the original topic, can we draw any parallels in regard to IQ? No, for it would be based on an assumption unless some hard data was offered.
     
  6. Chuck

    Chuck Active Member Claimed IQ: 150+

    LoL. here you give an assumption that is both true and false at the same time, meaning I could honestly address it either way with a high level of honesty. I've pondered some ideas about premature assumptions for some time and it was one of several reasons for my interest in joining this forum. There was a hope that among a high IQ group there might be some who were knowledgeable on topics like this.....so as you can see from that, my interest in this topic predated any interaction with you by quite a bit. That said, your tendency to read things into my posts was clearly a reminder of this issue.

    The comments so far seem to indicate that the assumptions the posts have made on this topic is a negative or poor relation to IQ. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but either way, that is not the case I'm making. My question looks to both sides of this coin as I recognize that making assumptions requires some level of knowledge and recognition of patterns. I also recognize that just because an assumption is premature, does not mean it is incorrect. People seem pretty smart when they are able to reach conclusions prior to having all the info, but not as sharp when their conclusions are off. I tend to think the key is how a person handles their insight about what they feel they are seeing.
     
    Preacherbob likes this.
  7. marom

    marom Well-Known Member Claimed IQ: 140+

    Everyone is forced to make assumptions by time constraints. Lacking a complete data set to move forward w/certainty, people have no choice but to make so-called "educated guesses." The more intelligent - and experienced - a person is, the more likely he is to make better guesses. However, the experience is the key factor: an experienced imbecile might well out-perform somebody w/a high IQ on a given task, where the imbecile has years of experience to his credit.
     
  8. Creedinger

    Creedinger Well-Known Member IQ: 120+

    One could see that you were dealing with this topic in the other topic. The question is very relevant to my interest as in fact I like to do a lot of assumptions all the time but think that this is alright since my level of discarding such assumptions is super low as well. To me this is related to the scientific method in form of a hypothesis.

    In case you are interested, we could have a little meta talk about the other thread and we could find out whether your writings were easy to missunderstand, my assumptions were totally flawed or if patterns can be found within your posts which allow those assumptions. For instance one has to take into account that some words might have very different conotations.

    Then there is always the problem of the frame of reference which makes it even more interesting to state assumptions based on what was said. In case the ego has been taken out of the equation, it boils down to a very interesting problem of communication in my opinion in which one could think about "a better way to communicate".

    You also asked about premature conclusions where the situation is totally differnet. A conclusion is a (final?) verdict based on the assumptions and relationships between those.
    At least for me it is very hard to draw a conclusion since my own frame of reference is so limited.

    And time constraints are highly different for any member of this forum. Some might have the fortunate opportunity to think very hard about their reply (or are just smarter :D ) and others have not.
     
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  9. Chuck

    Chuck Active Member Claimed IQ: 150+

    Yes, I'm glad you brought this up. I do acknowledge that at times I do this on purpose, like little wording traps to see if people will bite on them for various reasons, but it also often at times when my intent is to be extremely careful in my wording to concise and clear. While the former is entertaining and useful, the latter is confounding to an extent, although I've come to expect it. I had predicted that it would be less of an issue on this forum. Yes, I do wonder how much the fault is with my wording at times.
    ************

    spoiler...parts of the the above post is worded to elicit premature conclusions. Anyone care to take a stab at the underlying thoughts and expectations of the post?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
    Preacherbob likes this.
  10. Chuck

    Chuck Active Member Claimed IQ: 150+

    Imo, the above comment may shed some light on the issue. Like with the word "conclusion", you seem to often lock into one of the meanings of a word without considering the context. Now this could happen for lots of reasons of course, like if it was a translation issue or maybe a vocabulary restraint. What reason would you suggest?

    My use of the term conclusion was in the context of this definition- "a reasoned deduction or inference." The topic here a about a deduction or inference readers may make to post that goes astray from the poster's intent. I would theorize that recognizing context, along with matching that to possible known uses of a word could be indicative of intelligence levels with the right sample group. Any thoughts Creed?
     
  11. Chuck

    Chuck Active Member Claimed IQ: 150+

    Yes, I agree with much of what you suggest in your post, but also wouldn't you predict that intelligence could play a role in what a person might consider "sufficient" data to move forward? Also, Imo the main issue is with people moving forward on data that is NOT contained....thus the assumptive aspect on this. And couldn't you see how experience could also be extremely "misleading" in many situations where people have grown accustomed to certain normals, then are faced with a subtle but key difference they miss?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  12. Preacherbob

    Preacherbob Well-Known Member Unclaimed IQ

    Hence, my initial post. The obvious expectation would be to garner answers to a query in which no data is provided thereby receiving a preponderance of speculation. Whether a higher intellectuality is prone to a more exacting conclusion in a matter of logos versus the absence of de facto evidence would still be deemed as premature but does give a baseline for further investigation.
     
  13. marom

    marom Well-Known Member Claimed IQ: 140+

    Yes - hence catastrophes ... Often, people are misled by experience into becoming complacent; then they make the mistakes that are due to arrogance. Such is life. Still, regardless, we are nonetheless often forced to move forward w/nothing better than an assumption, simply because the data available to us is either faulty or incomplete. Besides, when other people are involved, as is usually the case, a wild-card factor is introduced in that we cannot predict their behavior w/any certainty. People in business are usually in this very predicament of not knowing exactly what their competition is up to and, so, have to make a good guess and hope for the best. Successful business people are those who make the best guesses under the most pressure.
     
    Chuck likes this.
  14. marom

    marom Well-Known Member Claimed IQ: 140+

    It would help if you read your own posts to make sure that your sentences are properly constructed! The third clause of your second sentence hardly makes sense. Intelligent people are no better at understanding nonsense than stupid people. In general, one should put as few words as possible into a sentence. The rules of grammar and syntax for the English language are fairly simple, true, but, if ignored, lead to gibberish.
     
  15. Chuck

    Chuck Active Member Claimed IQ: 150+

    LoL, maybe that is true, but what is "nonsense" for some might be easily understood by someone smarter....or even at times, any other person. Imo leaving out a relatively obvious word or two in a sentence is far from nonsense....especially in the shorthand of online posting, lol. How are you at wheel of fortune?

    That said, it is amusing that I dropped the ball on that particular sentence don't you think? You didn't miss the spoiler alert did you?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  16. marom

    marom Well-Known Member Claimed IQ: 140+

    Now, now - all of your other posts have been perfectly coherent. You simply did not proof read that sentence, confess.
     
    Chuck likes this.
  17. Chuck

    Chuck Active Member Claimed IQ: 150+

    Thank you for the compliments on the other posts, but you did notice the others lacked the warning label, right? lol Do other post being of better quality support this as a random mistake in this context or is it the other way around? Don't you appreciate the irony of words left out of a particular sentence about "careful wording"? (even if you can't accept a ruse)

    What I will confess is that I am a horrible proof reader when it comes to my own posts. It seems that my brain tends to generally use a stealth auto-correct, since it knows what to expect in my recent words. I have better results when reading at a later time, but by then, it's normally a bit late, lol. I'm just glad that many of my post are bearable.
     
  18. Creedinger

    Creedinger Well-Known Member IQ: 120+

    You still have not pointed out where I did those premature assumptions but only stated that I did. When I asked you did not reply. Then you stated that you purpusfully mislead people by setting up language traps - in an international froum where English is not the first language of people many member (me included).
    Regarding your defininition of "conclusion": What I wrote about the danger of drawing a conclusion is also true in case applying your definition. Your definition is more vague than mine btw. I like specific definitions.

    I am so so so sorry for that.
     
  19. Chuck

    Chuck Active Member Claimed IQ: 150+

    Unfortunately for you, my use of the word in this context was very appropriate. Being specific, but with the wrong definition serves little purpose. The definition I used is not mine or vague. It was right out of the dictionary as I took time to look it up to see if the error was mine. English not being your first language answers most of my questions related to your take on posts. That is not an insult, but just part of the challenge of communication.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  20. Creedinger

    Creedinger Well-Known Member IQ: 120+

    Haha, lol yes :) In German "verdict" mean "Urteil" and "conclusion" means "Schlussfolgerung". "Urteil" is synonymous with "Folgerung" and "Schluss" means verdict. So bascially this is what I stated in my definition. In English the two words seem to be less interchangeable than in German. ( http://synonyme.woxikon.de/synonyme/urteil.php ).
    Language :rolleyes:
     
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