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what do you think our ecological niche is?

Discussion in 'Science and Health' started by Kegs, May 31, 2017.

  1. extr3me

    extr3me Well-Known Member Claimed IQ: 130+

    We are predators, is a part of being omnivores. Unless we could create matter with our minds, there is no escaping it. We are just what we are in the end. Is hard for me to have a conversation that would not end in a fight with someone in the "real world", so; if you escalate that you can have wars easily lighted, in the process there are deaths involved, human kind. What humans do? We are predators, regulated by our moral compass, which tries to be controlled by itself.
     

  2. Veku

    Veku Active Member Unclaimed IQ

    I don't want this to be perceived as an attack in any shape or form so I need to make my intentions clear; they're noble...But I would have to oppose this since I think that this is not the best influence and needs to be confronted.

    There is some truth to what you said...but don't you think that this just appears to be consolidation for the most part? the type that is attained by ruling things to be "fine" simply because they are a part of an undergoing system or cycle, and that is how things are perceived and accepted to be? We are conscious and intelligent beings that can overlook instinct and make decisions for our own lives and lifestyles; I'm sure that the majority of the population is reasonable enough, especially the population that will come to be, as a result of our kindness and favors to them and their environments.
    How did you develop the idea that we are fated to be omnivores by design? My appendix is useless, hence, it is designed and fated to be shot by an arrow...
    You see how we are placing meaning into things? our systems may not be able to transaminate a variety of amino acids and obtain some of the essential nutrients by eating one kind of vegetable, but we are clever enough to realize that we can obtain every kind of amino acid and nutrient by eating a variety of vegetables and following proper supplementation. It is cost effective for the most part, it saves energy by reducing the wastage of energy that transpires as you move up trophic levels, animals aren't killed, PETA doesn't release f**ed up videos that never fail to ruin my day. Everyone is happy? ;)

    The next bit is not in response to you or directed to you in any way, please don't take it like that-

    Think of yourself as a glass, an empty one when you are born. As you grow older, you fill that glass with a variety of elements that you happen to adopt as life unfolds. Some people fill their glass with more shit than anything else...and eventually spill what may be concentrated shit all over... some people fill their glasses with more wine.. which most like or would at least prefer over shit :p?
    So in case, there is too much shit ...you can always empty that glass and make yourself receptive to the wine around you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
  3. extr3me

    extr3me Well-Known Member Claimed IQ: 130+

    I didn't said it was fine, I'm not sure if there is another workaround about it, maybe is just us trying to depart from our nature, and to think that we are something we are not? I love animals. My point is that we should be more careful, actually; we should be careful about what we take from the world, as opposed to a enormous corporation that's sole existence is condensed in one word "grow". If we are to depart from our earthly shackles, I believe all humanity should do it and together repair the damage we have caused, it would be a start.

    Yes, but our intelligence hinges in a delicate balance, one day you can have a kind person and the other day, that same person can burst into an anger that can lead to a terrible disaster, even death. Having the intelligence to do and not to do is something really important, not to be overlooked. So, where you see kindness, there also exists the opposite, and by that I mean; as usually, that we have to retreat to a state of simplicity, to look things from another perspective, and not just one part of it, but the whole.

    No, I'm sorry, I don't.

    Oh... I'm coming to know this quite well, I think I filled my glass early on I can't just empty it. I've tried many times to be someone else, it seems that my system doesn't work like that, and I say mine instead of we, because to me, there it would seem to be people that can move between ways of life, ways of working and thinking, with little effort.

    I welcome conversation, I 'm sorry that you think your questions are attacks; if we are not able to explain clearly what's on our minds, then what hope there is? I was exploring some macabre worlds in the past weeks, alas my sour words earlier.
     
    AguirresPriest and Creedinger like this.
  4. Veku

    Veku Active Member Unclaimed IQ

    You are fine. I can understand where you're coming from, it seems framing sentences in English isn't your strongest suit... Therefore, I would like to assume that this extends to your ability to comprehend it.
    I'm going to respond to just a few parts, as I think it's clear that you made some very conclusive statements, which probably required explanations; it's also clear that you did your best by writing so much, thank you for your response. I don't think that to alter your opinions or explain myself further than I already have is my life's purpose. You will understand it if you open up your mind and then maybe even teach me something after doing so? you're otherwise a clever person.

    I didn't think this... I was just making sure that you don't perceive my intentions in any other way than what I genuinely intended them to be in. It is very easy to regard the way I put those points across as an attack.


    Very understandable... but how hard is it to open your mind up? I'm not asking you to forgive and forget or transform into some other person and abandon your identity... no, that's very important for you to keep. The misfortune that you have had to endure will aid in your understanding of other people's situations and ultimately craft you into a more empathetic person. I meant to imply that you should not let this negativity skew your perception and then become decisive in your judgments... just open your mind up to possibilities, positive ones... You will have a hard time pretending that shit doesn't exist, it very much does and pretending will never feel absolutely real. You can acknowledge there's shit and keep it from getting into your very being, you can get very good at learning to ignore it. In fact, if you condition yourself enough, you may even manage to dump unpleasant memories at your own will like I have learned to do, for as long as is required for me to be positive and productive.
    My life has been hell otherwise and I have far too much to hold on to and be whining about. It's good that you realize this and you're open to conversations. It's clear that you didn't mean to intend it in the way I interpreted it to be in. Bamboos are much better food alternatives for you anyway.

    Take your time:thumbsup:

    also a powerful quote-
    “An entire sea of water can’t sink a ship unless it gets inside the ship. Similarly, the negativity of the world can’t put you down unless you allow it to get inside you.”

    Goi Nasu
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
    Beyonders likes this.
  5. Mohsin

    Mohsin Well-Known Member IQ: 140+

    Why can't hope strive to improve the situation for "everybody"? I don't see how the betterment that hope provides is necessarily at the expense of someone else. I guess you're sceptical about true altruism huh? Believe it or not, some of us are firm believers of it, and from whatever limited experience I have had so far, I am certain that altruism can and does exist. Sure, the altruist profits from the betterment that hope provides; however, the profiteers extend to the recipients of altruistic actions as well. Hope itself doesn't ignore anything; it is rather people that choose to ignore the fundamental essence of hope.
     
    Creedinger likes this.
  6. extr3me

    extr3me Well-Known Member Claimed IQ: 130+

    I'm going to take a swim in your sea of understanding and empathy.
    Maybe instead of a guess, you could try to understand more what Cornu is trying to say, you say that " I don't see how the betterment that hope provides is necessarily at the expense of someone else". You may take a pause there and maybe you can find some answers. I know that his words may sound harsh, but there is truth in them.
     
    Moloch likes this.
  7. Creedinger

    Creedinger Well-Known Member IQ: 120+


    Nix verstehen french fries reference. Will look it up.

    No but the social aspect of eating meat may be important to some. Sucks :(
     
    Moloch likes this.
  8. Creedinger

    Creedinger Well-Known Member IQ: 120+

    And when you do this then don't forget that drinking wine is always good and if there is not your favorite wine around then drink beer or whatever does not taste shitty.
     
  9. Mohsin

    Mohsin Well-Known Member IQ: 140+

    It's a completely subjective conclusion, and "truth" as you put it, is completely relative. I simply expressed "my" conclusion based on my own truth, and I don't see why I should deviate from what I think and feel is right just because it fails to coincide with somebody else's perspective.
     
    Beyonders likes this.
  10. Creedinger

    Creedinger Well-Known Member IQ: 120+

    Cornu:

    Maybe some people feel that for every positive there must be a negative reaction.

    When you help ppl then you must be careful not to overuse your time and have your priorities straight. Some other ppl think that

    Idk. Some try ;)
     
  11. Cornucopia

    Cornucopia Well-Known Member IQ: 140+

    I don't believe that it's possible to change things for the better. Or at least not the nature of things. Which is what actually matters; in regards to hope.
     
  12. Mohsin

    Mohsin Well-Known Member IQ: 140+

    Three years ago while I was on vacation in the Gambia, I asked an 18 year old kid where I could buy a map of Banjul. He went into a couple of stores looking for one and came back after 15 minutes without succeeding. I asked him whether he would be willing to act as our (I was with a friend) tour guide and he happily accepted the request and jumped in the back of the jeep. During the next 14 days, I got to know him and his family quite well. He had a 83 year old grandmother who thought she was a hundred and ten, a 3 month old baby brother and a loving mother. Soon after I met him, he started to express an interest towards academics; he enjoyed sitting at the back of the jeep telling us interesting facts about his motherland (the good and the bad), and his passion for welding; he loved the creative act of moulding things with his hands and giving them form for practical use. I then asked him why he wasn't pursuing further education and his response was "because tuition fee in the Gambia is too expensive". There was a long silence... He didn't ask for money or attempt to scam me which is what 90% of Gambians try to do. He instead starting asking me questions about why I chose to do what I do.

    A day went by, and after thinking about it, I decided to financially support him so that he could fulfil his dream of starting a career in welding. What started as a vacation turned into an altruistic high. I spent several hours in the scorching heat helping him get an Identification card from the Gambian Embassy; at one point I got kicked out of the embassy because of arrogance triggered by a refusal to bribe one of the officers. At another point, I had a fat man shouting in my face like an animal because he felt insulted by what I said to him. Despite this fiasco, after 6 hours of fighting for them to issue his ID card, we left with the card in our hand. I then made an appointment with the best technical private college in Gambia to enrol this kid as a student; we spoke to the principal, showed him the kid's ID card, came up with a financial plan to pay his tuition fee over the next 2 years, and officially got him a place.

    We then went 'room hunting' so that he could have a place to stay close to his college. After much struggle, it took us 3 days to finally get him a room. I bought him some clothes and a mobile phone. As my trip approached the end, I could see life, ambition and determination shining in this kid's eyes. He promised to work hard and succeed at all costs; he came to the airport to drop me off and I told him to promise me that next time he goes to the airport, it will be him leaving the country to better his life. Till this day, I speak to him on Skype once a month. He has never asked for more money than we agreed on, and he has become a refined young man with great potential and promise.

    In light of this, sorry but I DO believe that it is possible to change things for the better. Its a matter of having the mind set to make a difference. In this situation, I have profited from the betterment provided by hope and so has this kid, and at the expense of nobody....
     
    Veku, Hapax, Kegs and 2 others like this.
  13. Kegs

    Kegs Active Member Unclaimed IQ

    And THAT ^ is precisely why.
     
  14. extr3me

    extr3me Well-Known Member Claimed IQ: 130+

    A beautiful gift for that boy, @Mohsin. But if we all do that, we will fall in meritocracy. In doing that, you say that it was at the expense of nobody, but what about countries losing their "brightest" to other countries, does that help the country itself? I don't think so, in a perfect world it might be a good thing, but as how things are today, it seems not to be. @Mohsin am I to accept that simply by someone feeling right about something, is able to do what he pleases, if someone feels right to kill me, that's okay? Because as now, I seem to threaten the very existence of some members of the forum?

    This post is filled with obtuse thinking, maybe I'm not the one who should open my mind @Veku, and I don't need you to tell me if I'm fine or not. How can you even say that my post is the kind of thinking to be confronted, I see now that my words hurt your very soul, as you seem to be the opposite of what I expressed earlier. Your words trying to diminish me are indeed, like a message for me to stand. I love animals, but we are not higher beings as some of you would say, and trying to separate yourself from the rest of humanity and condemn the rest is a problem. What happens in your vegan utopia if someone decides that he want meat, animal meat; or if someone wants to have animals and then eat them?

    @Kegs, I don't get your last post, if you already felt that way, why you didn't come clean about your intentions in the first place?
     
    Moloch likes this.
  15. Veku

    Veku Active Member Unclaimed IQ

    Don't put words in my mouth man.
    1) 'fine' has multiple meanings.
    2)I have no soul
    3)stances are confronted. forum discussions are meant for this.
    4)posts on a panel don't threaten people's existence.
    5)you simply don't hurt others if you don't want to be hurt.
    6)delusion diminishes.
    7)to hell with humanity if it loves to bite on the same hand that feeds it.
    8)there was no mention of higher beings, only conscious and intelligent beings.
    9) keg has nothing to do with it.
    10) there are minors in and out of the forum who are subject to being influenced by this.
    11) you don't act as though it's reasonable and defensible to eat helpless pets on an open forum.
    12)non-veg is a luxury that you can live without.
    14) the economy and population can still be maintained by applying several introduced methods
    15)take a deep breath and sit down old man.
    16) I would like to keep my mind from opening from the rear.
    17) going by your reasoning ..human meat should not be spared and you would make a scrumptious appetizer.
    18) your existence is still not in danger. deep breaths... in and out, slowly.
     
  16. Mohsin

    Mohsin Well-Known Member IQ: 140+

    He was barely making 100 dalasi a day (less than 2 euros a day) helping his uncle sell items from a cart. Why should people in his predicament care about their country for losing their "brightest" when their government doesn't give a flying **** about them? Do you know the unemployment rate in the Gambia? Do you know how many people die from Malaria in that part of the world because they can't afford to pay for proper treatment? Its easy to make such claims when a welfare system exists in the west; face it, we have it easy compared to them. You 're entitled to think the way you like, but it won't deter me from doing what I can to help such people improve the quality of their lives. Rather than spending my time philosophising, I'd rather do something to try to change things for the better; even if it starts with helping one individual..

    You can accept whatever you like; I'm not forcing you to agree with me. I don't know the intricacies of your decision making process, but I like to rely on my ability to "think" and "feel" before making a decision. So far it has worked well, so I see no reason to change the approach now.. If someone feels right to kill you, then the feeling cant be right since the outcome of acting upon that feeling would be unfavourable (i.e. taking a life).. If however, someone feels right to help another human being, then I see no reason why it shouldn't be acted upon. If the outcome is favourable, why choose to not act upon it?
     
    Moloch likes this.
  17. Kegs

    Kegs Active Member Unclaimed IQ

    @Kegs, I don't get your last post, if you already felt that way, why you didn't come clean about your intentions in the first place?[/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure I understand your question. if it's referring to the "and that is precisely why" it was directed at Mohsin regarding why I'm glad to be on a planet with this dude. The Gambian story is poignant and shows great care in observation, and human fellowhip. It's an impressive example of connection.
     
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  18. TheGreat

    TheGreat Member Claimed IQ: 130+

    We are doombringers. We are the destroyers of ourselves. We have bested our natural predators and have spred like viruses across the world and we foolishly think there's no consequence. Just like science implies; it's either the virus(humans) kills the host (earth) or the host kills the virus. Every natural disaster have been to our ignorance and lack of conservation of natural resources in an effort to feed the growing population. I suspect in the next 100000 years, Humans will outgrow their limiting capacity and will be doomed. Let's say for one moment, humans were able to stop global warming and improve their conservative method, we can tell that earth is unpredictable from the extinction of the dinosaurs. What I am saying in excess is that we have no role in the ecological niche that benefits every living creature. Just roles to doom us all.
     

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